Patrick Traverse: How Entrepreneurs Can Turn Business Income Into Long-Term Wealth

Visit Patrick Traverse's website: https://BreakawayFinancialGroup.com

Patrick Traverse, founder of Breakaway Financial Group, joins IncomeInsider TV to discuss how entrepreneurs can bring more structure to cash flow, taxes, investments, and long-term financial planning.

Patrick explains the personal CFO approach, why tax planning should happen throughout the year, how business owners can pay themselves more intentionally, and why building wealth outside the business is so important. He also shares practical advice on exit planning, recurring revenue, financial automation, and choosing the right financial adviser.

In this episode:

• What a personal CFO does
• Tax preparation versus tax planning
• Common financial mistakes business owners make
• How to pay yourself more intentionally
• Why entrepreneurs should invest outside the business
• How to build a company that can run without you
• Questions to ask before hiring a financial adviser

Learn more about Patrick Traverse and Breakaway Financial Group:
https://breakawayfinancialgroup.com

Connect with Patrick Traverse on Linkedin:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-traverse-cfp

Key takeaways from the full interview:
https://incomeinsider.org/patrick-traverse-cash-flow-tax-planning-wealth/

Watch IncomeInsider TV on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPoPtr5ZVPI

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Disclosure: This content is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial, tax, or investment advice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to Income Insider TV, where we bring on experts, founders, and thought leaders to break down the trends that are shaping your money and your financial future. I'm your host, Sam La Liberty, and today we are joined by Patrick Traverse, who is the founder of Breakaway Financial Group. Now, Patrick works with entrepreneurs, small business owners, and he helps them bring more structure to cash flow, to taxes, investments, and long-term financial planning. He's a formal professional athlete. Okay. So Patrick brings a systems-driven approach to wealth building. His philosophy is that success, whether it's in business or personal finance, it comes from doing the right things consistently over time. Patrick is a certified financial planner. He's an enrolled agent, a certified expert, he's a certified exit planning advisor, and he helps business owners build wealth more intentionally and tax efficiently. So in this episode, we are going to talk about why making good money does not always mean creating financial clarity. We're going to talk about the financial mistakes entrepreneurs often make and what everyday Americans can learn from the way successful business owners are building long-term wealth. Now, as always, before we get started, quick disclaimer: nothing in this conversation is financial tax or legal advice. Everybody's situation is going to be different. So if you are considering making changes to your finances, to your taxes, to your retirement savings, investment strategies, please speak with a qualified professional. With that said, Patrick, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Thank you, Sam. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Yeah, I am so looking forward to hearing your journey because it is not a typical one. You went from professional hockey into finance, into becoming an entrepreneur who started Breakaway Financial Group. So walk us through that journey a little bit. Do you remember when you were younger noticing that maybe you thought about money or finances differently from your teammates while you were playing hockey?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Actually, it started a lot, you know, like earlier. So then that if you talk to um, you know, like some of the students I went to high school with, so they would have told you that uh they would have seen me more as an accountant than as a hockey player.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

For me, it's more of a place that I feel you know like comfortable in. You know, I've always been a numbers person. So uh it's uh uh for you know, so for me, you know, like it's natural, but I think my experiences, you know, like as an athlete, as a person that did well so early in my life, I was introduced to working so with advisors and how that world works. And for me, it was an eye, you know, it was an eye-opener. There was a lot of um of things so that I, you know, I struggled with so I so as an you know as an investor and uh seeing that from um you know from my own eyes and and and and looking at at what I needed some at a time and and what I couldn't find, uh, I think was um what made me so want to do it and and trying to be a person that would be you know able to help uh entrepreneurs or investors um so get the need so that they so that they needed at the time.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Okay, so it sounds like finance and entrepreneurship was actually more on brand and less of a surprise to people than hockey. It kind of felt like you know, we saw this coming for a long time. I'm sure though, that experience playing professional sports has impacted how you run your firm today. How could it not? Is there a specific habit that you really picked up from the sports world that applies to the world you're in today?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Well, when you're part of a of a sport uh as an athlete, I think one of the things that that you have to always do is work on your ability. So you always, you know, like try to get better because there's always somebody so behind you. So that's trying to get to your spot. So for me, um, I'm looking at business exactly the same way, is I always try to look at a new day for uh a time to get um, you know, like more education about what I should be doing and improve some of my business and how I help some of my clients.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Hmm, I love that. You are now an entrepreneur, you have a business called Breakaway, and you actually describe breakaway as a personal CFO team for entrepreneurs. So, for somebody who's never heard that phrase before, what does that actually mean in practice and how is that different from if I wanted to hire more of a traditional financial advisor?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

So I would say a financial advisor um is probably uh has a a smaller realm of uh uh of of look at at how um the finances can be improved. So I think whenever somebody is an entrepreneur or a small business owner, they have to look at uh at the whole picture, including their business. So there needs to be a look at their accounting, their uh, you know, how to grow so a business that would be uh um sellable or or that would increase in value, you know, how do we use that business to now uh you know use the tax code to improve it, you know, like you know, like tax efficiency and and how to bring more of that money home to then look at the at the topics that um a financial advisor could use uh to increase wealth. So so I think the way that I look at my business and how um I help so our clients is is a lot more broad in you know, like in nature. So wanted to to name it something that's a little bit so different so that um you know people that are interested in our services are are are gonna see that's so that what so we are doing is a lot um is is a lot um you know so broader in nature.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Okay, so it's intentionally broad, but to get, I guess, specific for a moment to just help people understand where and when they might use one or the other, can you give us an example of maybe a decision that personal CFO would weigh in on that a typical advisor wouldn't touch or that wouldn't be part of their work?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

So a lot of times if you talk to a financial advisor about you know possibly a tax um decision or a tax um uh approach or or strategy so that they may want to uh that someone some some may want to use, they normally say that that they should talk to their tax accountant. So being able to have uh all of the credentials and the knowledge uh to be able to approach the whole scenario, the whole um you know, like picture, then um then we are you know you know like able to look at all aspects of their finances and and to bring uh um guidance on all aspects instead of just you know investments or just you know like planning in general.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Okay, that's clear. And I know for entrepreneurs, sometimes we focus just on making money and thinking that once we have the money coming in, it's gonna solve everything else and everything's gonna become easy. But you actually specifically call it a problem on your website that you see a lot, which is successful business entrepreneurs and business owners. They have revenue they're coming in, but that cash flow, it still feels unpredictable. Their tax strategy, it feels super reactive, their investments are scattered. And so they often wonder where the money is even going. So, do you think this is more of a mindset issue? Is this a systems issue? Is it both? Like, what are you observing when you actually start working with these clients who don't feel that clear?

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Well, I think one of the first things that we do is that we want to uh to bring in the data. So we uh um take over their QuickBooks or their you know like uh accounting software, and we want to look at where at where the money is going in their business so that we can see if there is any um efficient ways to reduce spending so that there's more at the end of the, you know, at the end of the day to make true investments, either you know, like in the business or outside of their, you know, or outside of their business. So the data is very important. And once we have that data, then we want to uh um to so so we want to create a business plan or a financial plan for their business. So having that in mind, then we can see what are the things that uh that we can plan for over the next year or two that the business owner may want to spend on to increase the value of their business, but also to uh to build wealth uh you know like for themselves. So uh I would say um, you know, the most important part is the data is to go is to go back and and find uh a way to get that data to be uh you know um uh to be used on on the monthly basis and as soon as possible uh once a month is done. So have that in place and then creating a plan, you know, you know, like after that, you know, is also important to uh, you know, as we know more about the business and what they're and and and and what the business owner is trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Okay, so you're really understanding their numbers. You mentioned QuickBooks, you're looking at their accounting software, you're really following the money. But then for a lot of business owners, where all that money is being tracked and followed could be in so many different places, scattered across their financial life. They have business accounts, they have personal accounts, there's tax planning, there's retirement saving investments, insurance, who knows? But it's all over the place. So you really help people go from scattered to systematized. I think that's one of the languages you use. How long does that typically take before a client has, you know, real value and in improving these things? And what starts to change when these things are all working together as a system?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, if somebody has a um some experience as an employee and they've had a job where they had a 401k, so one of the um the things so that we talk about uh to so to those so people is that we often see that there is value in automating our finances. So having a 401k that we know that we're putting in a certain amount, you know, like on a monthly basis to our accounts and we kind of set it aside, then we find out that that money is going to grow over time. So we try to help our clients to accomplish all of that with all of their all of their finances. So uh either through the business or through you know, like personal accounts, then we want to uh try to automate as much as possible um both of their business and their personal so finance. So for us, it depends on uh the complexity of you know, you know, of the client. Like we will spend so that time so that we need to understand so the client's situation in the business, you know, I can personally, and hopefully normally, so within you know, like two to three months, then we can, you know, so set up some automation so that the money ends up in the right places, uh, that's going to be more tax efficient and that's gonna grow so they're wealth at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Yeah, I imagine it depends also on how organized they are ahead of time to determine how quickly you can really help them. So, are there like tools that are almost prerequisites that you would say someone should already have in place before even working with you? Like you've mentioned QuickTimes. What are some habits or tools people should already be using and having set up before you come in and start to help?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

We actually have had uh clients of all sorts. We have um uh some clients that are are pretty organized. So they have some so quick books in place and they have some accounting in place that we are able to try to optimize. And some of them um basically just have a bunch of receipts, you know, like in the box. So it comes in in all shapes or forms for us. Uh, but the idea is the same, is we want to put the effort to uh to to you know you know, systematize so these clients um so that they that we can grab the data and use that for their so benefit. So the idea I think I you know I would say on this is that it's never too early. Uh if someone is interested in um in learning more about you know how we can help and and uh and how uh um a company like ours that helps our clients uh with streamlining so their finances is not too late. Um normally so earlier is better.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Okay, so really as soon as possible. And what do you think is the cost of never doing it? Right? A lot of people are surviving year after year, they're reacting to their taxes, they're they're making it work, right? They're surviving the keeping the lights on. But what is maybe the cost that they don't realize of waiting too long to put a system like this in place?

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Well, um, I think you know, like everybody heard about the compounding, you know, like you know like interest effect. Um, this only works if you have time. So the longer it's that you wait in in creating a financial plan of some sort uh and having your finances work for you, uh the the more it's gonna cost, you know, like over long term in your ability to build wealth. So so for me um it is uh it is always so better to have someone that has so decided to make the step so forward to to uh to go ahead and uh and make some changes in in their so financial life as as a good uh new so client. So as long as we have that, then uh so we know so that we can work, you know, so with them to so to better them uh in you know and their finances.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

You're also an enrolled agent. So taxes are also a big part of the work you're doing, in addition to just cash flow and planning and what their goals are. It's kind of their obligations that we have to do on an annual basis. Now, I know there's a distinction between tax prepare tax preparation and proactive tax planning. So help us distinguish those two and why is it important that we see those things as separate?

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah, so tax so preparation is part of the compliance part. So the IRS so and and other you know institutions, so every state and every uh, you know, a county, so need us to file and pay taxes based on on income so that we may um so produce. So uh all of that is very important, and we don't want to miss that. So that's uh that's a big part of uh of making sure that we do the right thing uh for our clients. But tax strategy is more about learning the tax code and and what can be done based on someone's goals and plan to keep more of their money in their pocket and investing in things that the government is incentivizing us to invest in. So uh there could be some places that are a good fit so for a client that instead of paying a larger portion of taxes, uh we pay we give uh that to investments instead and pay less so to DRS in a way that's that's incentivized and and legal. So for that to be um so so happening, it's not something that is done at the last so minutes. So whenever it's time for tax time, it's it's normally too late for a lot of these things. So it's something that is you know like recurring uh throughout the year. So for a lot of our clients that we filed in April and March, uh, we normally start so right away in creating uh in understanding what their expected income is going to be at the end of the year, and then starting to review some tax strategies uh at that time to help uh use that new income as ways to build wealth and and reduce our taxable income.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

We're talking about tax credits, right? I feel like that's the language I've I've heard before where if you are investing in your business in certain ways, the government will give you a credit if it's aligned with maybe strategies the government has. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

So a credit is different than a deduction. So most you know, you know, tax strategies are gonna provide a deduction of income. So where are you so depending on the tax sub bracket, it's gonna provide a tax savings based on uh on that you know on that tax sub bracket. Uh, but a lot of these things are gonna be uh, you know, what could be purchased or done inside the business that would help grow the business. So that's the first place to look at. And then there could be the same thing, like maybe there's oil and gas, you know, like you know, like investments that could be you know purchased to diversify a portfolio, that provides a large amount of deductions for an investor. So there's a a number of those, and and the idea is to provide um you know a client with what would fit them best uh so that they can build uh their wealth with the type of assets that they that they want and you know and believe in while you know having a look at tax efficiency, you know, at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Okay, that makes sense. And without getting too specific, I know everyone's taxes are going to be different, and that's really the value of working with somebody who can look at your books and really provide some strategies and and as you said, do it ahead of time because when it's tax time, it's too late to allocate those funds in a way that's going to benefit you for this tax year. And now you're starting to look at the year ahead. So, really, it's as soon as possible. You want people to be thinking about this. Um, so without getting too specific, what are just some general mistakes when it comes to taxes that you see entrepreneurs make once they start earning real money?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I would say um to go back to my planning um idea, I think it would be to have some discussions early on. So not knowing uh what the strategies are going to be or not, you know, like having a plan uh is probably the biggest some mistakes that we see. Um and to have some conversation or have someone that you can talk to uh about these things. So one of the issues that's that we see, and one of the reasons why we're so we're growing, is that most accountants or CPAs do not have the bandwidth to talk or to meet their clients and talk about tax planning uh a few times a year. So because of this, then uh you know it's it's hard for someone to know so what they need to do during the year to take advantage of these, you know, of these strategies. So I would say the biggest uh some mistake is not having a plan and not taking the time to learn more about what is right for that client. Again, there's um there's a number of things so that can be done, uh, but understanding uh uh the family or the or the business owner in their life, I think is is a big part of what needs to be known to be able to create a tax plan.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

So in general, it's really just not having a plan is the most universal mistake that you're seeing. Are there like specific mistakes in terms of how um entrepreneurs might be running their cash flow or their businesses that are those mistakes that become really hard to undo once they're already made? Any like really big red flags we can give people as a concrete example?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

So I would say um not understanding the amount of income that may be expected so by the end of the year. So understanding like uh um uh what the profit is gonna be. So a lot of times somebody gets in the fourth so quarter and they're finding out that um their profits is gonna be high and they're scrambling, even like at the end of the year, to purchase some some equipment or do some sort of a uh uh um uh an expenditure for their business so to try so to reduce their taxable income. So I would say that's probably outside of the planning aspect, uh uh the last minute uh strategy, which normally is not a good investment. So we want to be able to put our money in places where uh the money will enable growth, either in the business or in our wealth. So for that, it takes some times to find uh to find what so what would be a good investment. So being last minute and not having a plan uh is is definitely um uh a Think so that we're trying to avoid that.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Okay. Another one is just entrepreneurs not being clear on how much they should be paying themselves when they're business owners, right? They struggle with what that number should be, how much should I leave and reinvest in the business? How much should I invest outside of the business? So, how do you think a business owner should be thinking through that decision?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

So we see a good amount of business owners that have a fairly good idea of their business, you know, like in like in general. They know they have a good sense of what their books are, they have a fairly good idea of what their profits are going to be. However, uh, they don't tend to have the same um an uh emphasis in knowing what they need so personally. They basically use their business as a as an ATM. They just pull some some some money out so as needed instead of really finding out and doing some accounting or personal accounting to find that out. So one of the things that we do is that we use a tool like Monarch to uh to do the bookkeeping so for us so that we have an idea of what that that family needs so to live on and be, you know, some so comfortable. So once we know this, then we can um uh automate as much income so that is needed to you know like you know, like satisfy their their uh so their lifestyle. So then whatever is left can be used for future investment, for tax strategies and all that. So uh understand understanding both sides of the equation uh enables us to to understand that, you know, like automate as much of that income as possible and see what's left over for uh for you know for growing wealth and tax efficiency.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Okay. Are there any signs that somebody is paying themselves too little? Like, is there anything that you notice that would flag that you should be taking out more money from the business?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Um so I mean it's never, I wouldn't say um, you know, one of the things that we want to ensure is that because our clients are working hard, they're you know, as an entrepreneur, uh their business is is is their love, is is what they do uh for um you know like most of their lives. So we want to make sure that they have a way for so for them to enjoy life, you know, like at the same time. So it happens, you know, like sometimes that people kind of need a nudge or or some sort of a uh of a permission to take a little bit more and go and go up on vacation so that they can come back and be and be refreshed and grow their business some more. So understanding again what the uh what the business can do in terms of income and what we understand about their lifestyle and what and what their their basic you know uh uh expenses are, you know, personally, then we can allow them to take more home uh and ensure that there's a portion of that that's being invested as well. So again, all the data so that we capture enables us to really find uh um like what are the amounts that need to go uh in the growth of the business, in the growth of their investments, and for them to enjoy life in you know like in general and get them such a place that they'll be able to retire at you know at some time, uh at some point with um enough assets to live on and be comfortable, you know, like for the rest of their life.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah, I appreciate you mentioning so that someone can actually go enjoy their lives, right? This is a big piece of why people become entrepreneurs and that freedom to be their own boss and to dictate their lifestyle on a regular basis. So, are there ways that you help people feel more comfortable with the idea of taking money off the table when realistically it's easy to get into that mindset of well, the business could always use more?

SPEAKER_01 26:13

So we have a system that I call the bank account structure uh on the personal uh side of the finances, where uh we show them like what is important you know in their life and and how to to put to to give a purpose on every dollar that they bring home. So a big portion of that is going to uh what we call the lifestyle savings uh expenses. So those are the things that for most people, so these days want to do. So they want to have experiences and want to take their kids for you know, like for some vacation and and and try to live uh um together in in in you know and have some experiences that they will so remember so for a long time. So uh that process again, uh because we like automation, as soon as the money comes in, you know, like on the personal side, there's a certain amount of money that goes into uh that that bucket of expenses so that they can plan ahead uh for those um you know like like memorable you know experiences. So it is something that we somewhat force our clients. I think so. Once we do that, so once or twice, so they really like it and they want to do more of it. So the idea is to is to really push our clients to to use their business to build that wealth so that they can do more of that.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Yeah, there's taking money out to enjoy your life, and then there's also taking money out of your business to build wealth in other areas. And that can also be tricky for entrepreneurs who really just want to pour everything back into growing their business. It makes sense. It's what's they it's what they know, they can control it. It's often what's given them the best return so far. But at some point, just investing solely in your own business can be a risk. So, why do you think it's important for business owners to build wealth outside of their business and where should they start?

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, so part of the um to be a certified exit planner through the exit planning institute is that you learn uh the facts about you know you know, like small small businesses. Uh, and one of the things so that we learn is that there's actually a small amount of businesses that are sold, you know, like every year. So about so 20% of the businesses, so 20 so so to so to 30% of the businesses so we'll eventually sell. So because of this, you you have to do two things. You have to make sure that you're you're growing a business that somebody is going to want to buy. And the other one is that you want to remove some of your risk that if you're not able to sell it, that you're building wealth on the side, or you're using your business to create enough cash flow to be able to invest in in other things that will you know help you have a plan B uh uh for you to retire on. So that's that's very important. There's a lot of risk in in building a business. You're a lot of uh you're in control of what your your efforts are are you know like like producing, but yes, it is something so that you need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

I'm glad that you mentioned the exit because I know that's also something that you help clients with. You have a SIPA designation, and so you really help your clients often think about what an exit down the road could look like. So, why should entrepreneurs be thinking about that besides kind of the obvious things that you just mentioned so far? And then is there a time frame, right? Where is there like a number of years in a business where someone should realistically start exit planning? What are what are the reasons to start thinking about it now? And then when is now? How should how soon should we be thinking about that?

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Well, I would say um business that an investor is gonna want to purchase is good business in you know in general. So uh it's a business that's gonna have a low risk, so meaning that there's there's not a lot of risk in having one employee that could be leaving at any time and and make the business fail. Or maybe it has to do with a small amount of of um of customers. So we want to spread the risk, so we want to uh uh so remove the the owner uh as much as possible. So we we don't want the the business to be around the so the owner so that whenever that business uh uh wants to be sold, uh um so removing some so the owner is gonna be a detriment and the investor so may not want to take that risk. So all of that makes it so that if someone starts early and puts the the place that the things in place to allow so for that business to become eventually sellable means that you'll build a business that's gonna be more enjoyable for yourself to run as well. So so being able to go away for a couple of weeks you know on vacation and not have to worry that the business is gonna is gonna struggle is one of the things that that allows. So it's really a set of information, a set of uh of things that you should be aiming as a business owner. Um, and you shouldn't have to wait until it's time it's time to sell to the business. It should be something that's always in the background and always trying to accomplish um uh these aspects for the business.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

What I'm kind of hearing is that you need to be able to have a business that can run without you, not only for you to be able to enjoy your life outside of the business, but also to be teed up for an exit so that someone could say this is a business that could run without this entrepreneur leading it, and therefore I'm willing to buy it from this entrepreneur who is currently leading it. I love the example that you gave of can I go on vacation without my business falling apart? Are there any other gut checks or um processes someone could go through to see, like, can this business really even run without me? Am I already starting to be set up for an exit or do I need to make some serious shifts?

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Um, well, you know, there's there's um a few different things so that you could be looking at uh as I said some before, you could be looking at uh at the way um that the uh uh that the vendors are structured. So are you putting uh so much you know like emphasis onto one or two you know vendors that could be changing their sub-business submodel that could be affecting um your business? So do you have uh only a small amount of of customers that if that customer leaves, uh so that creates a lot of risk. So those are things so that could be so looked at. And also investors like the idea of having a business that has a recurring income. So um so if you if you're able to sign contracts or have some sort of a business model that allows for income that's coming in on a monthly basis, uh, it is a lot easier for an investor to see uh how that income can continue in over time and be able to um to expect that income uh you know like you know over the long term. So uh all of these things are very important. Again, it's something that everyone should be building in like over time, you know, in their business. It's not something that just you know happens overnight, but um it does it does uh help uh a business owner understand you know how they should be um so creating some value in their business.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

And we have been talking a lot today about entrepreneurs and business owners, right? And that's definitely a core focus for you. But a big part of our audience would be regular W-2 employees who really want to learn the way that successful entrepreneurs are using systems, are planning, are thinking about long-term wealth. We also have a lot of listeners who are investors and they make their wealth that way. So when we're speaking to that audience, does the personal CFO mindset can that scale down to somebody who is earning a regular salary? And if so, how?

SPEAKER_01 34:48

So I would say that the ideas are are quite you know like similar. So you the idea is that you want to get the data so you so you don't have to have uh you know like two different set of books or you know, like or accounting, so you don't need to to to keep track of of your you know like business expenses, but you can you you should be doing the same thing on your personal finance, so understanding so where your money is going, what your what your family needs to live on, and then um looking at ways to make that you know like more efficient. You know, is there are there things that could be cut down and and have more at the end of the month to invest? Um and then um uh once you have that uh set up and and automated, then it would be to take a look at at tax strategies. There's a less amount of options for people that are not a business owner, unfortunately, uh, but there's still some ideas so that could be used to uh to you know to become a little bit more tax efficient so that we can use the tax code to incentivize us so to invest in things that the government wants us to invest in so that we can uh have more of our money uh to grow our wealth over time. Uh and then and then um the last thing so would be to try to start as soon as possible. So the longer that you're able to apply these um these things, these uh so these ideas, then then wealth is just gonna grow you know like over time. It's just it's just a long game, it's not something that it you know you know happens you know overnight, but if you're able to be you know consistent and start early, I think you know, like anybody so can do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Yeah. And I love that we have been talking today about life outside of work and how money can really help us go and enjoy our lives. So, what does life look like for you outside of breakaway? What are some things that you're really passionate about or excited about, or how does your family and all of that fit into your definition of success in terms of life outside of work as an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Um, like I said, you know, like earlier, um, you know, uh what we hear so from our clients so that they want you know, you know, experiences and they want to live um a more enjoyable life. So we do the same thing too. So we try to um to use our money to in the same way as our you know as our clients do and and and uh and use it to uh to have some like enjoyable time so with our family and friends. I actually just came back from a trip on Saturday uh from Scotland, so I like to golf. So we went uh me and my friends to a golf trip for a week, and it was you know amazing. So because I'm I'm the planner you know of the group, so I'm the one that that takes care of you know like of you know of the of the organization, but uh uh you know it it was an amazing time and that and I think that's what life is all about. So if I don't mind to work hard uh and have a growing business and take care of my clients, if I'm able to, you know, you know, like from time to time to go away and and enjoy life so that way, you know, a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

I completely agree. Okay, Patrick, this has been great, but I do want to close off with a quick lightning round. Now, think about people now who are maybe considering hiring a financial advisor, an accountant, some kind of financial professional. So these are some questions specifically for them. Quick answers here are fine. I got a few of them. Are you up for that?

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Okay, what is the first question someone should ask themselves before even hiring a financial advisor?

SPEAKER_01 38:41

So, what I would say on that is um now that we have AI, and I think it's you know, like pretty much you know, like everybody now is using some sort of a of an AI to research or or to or to get some answers on different things. Personally, I don't believe that AI anytime soon at least is going to replace uh advisors of um in different ways, uh, but I think it can help people to um to be prepared when so when so meaning them and trying to find so that so that right person. So I would say um use AI to find uh a group of questions or a group of situations so that you can use that for each of your of the people so that you're um interviewing, so that you have uh the so depending on you like on the you know you know on the situation, have an answer from each of the advisor on how they would approach each you know each of these situations. So that's what I would do if I was an investor at the you know in in these times.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

What are the fees that someone should make sure they really understand before signing a contract or signing really anything with a financial advisor?

SPEAKER_01 39:59

So um I think what is the most important part is understanding the value. So some of the things that we've seen in the past is um uh personally, so we are not the cheapest. We're somewhere you know in the middle. And and um however, we provide a lot of services. So I think it's not much uh about what the fees that are charged, but uh more about understanding so what is so what is provided so so for these fees and make sure that that you're getting more or you're you think that you're gonna get more in terms of value than what you're paying in you know in fees. So that's the most important part.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Okay, love that one. Uh, what is one red flag that someone might not be the right financial advisor for you?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

So as a financial advisor, we act a little bit like a therapist. So as I talked about, you know, a little bit, you know, like you know, earlier, that we sometimes push our clients to spend up so to spend a little bit more, and it happens that we have to tell them uh the hard truth that they need to spend less. So there's there's ways that we that we need to uh to come into the relationship and and be able to tell the hard truth. So um, and I think that someone needs that in in that type of relationship. So being able to click with someone, uh being able to feel you know like comfortable enough to be able to share uh you know your concern and and and your deep thoughts about your money and your life, I think is very important. So for me, uh someone that that you're not able to click with uh is a red flag. So you should be able to uh to be able to share your your thoughts, so without you know having to feel bad about them.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

It's so true. It's like you gotta tell the doctor what's actually going on, right? These are the people who are here to help you, and you can't feel shy or embarrassed. And money is similarly one of those things that can bring a lot of shame or discomfort to talk about, especially to talk about honestly and transparently. So having somebody that you can just tell the truth to. Um, this is your person to be honest too. Okay, so I love that. Last one, what is one question people almost never ask a financial advisor, but really should.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Oh, that's a good one. Um I would say people tend to be focused on um fees and um um and you know, you know, how they approach are they, you know, are they a fiduciary and things like that? So we always get the same so questions. So I would be asking, uh, so what makes you a good advisor? So personally, I like to educate. I like to spend the time to under to make sure that my clients, if we take a decision for them, that they understand why. So some advisors are going to be good at be able to take the complex and make it simple and and and and want to take the time to educate so that our client at the end of the day, I want to make sure that my clients are getting uh more savvy so with their money, you know, over the long term. Uh, but some others may be more, you know, like technical, or they may be more um um, they they may have a different set of skills. So so knowing how um your relationship is going to be with the advisor and how uh and and how you you would like that that that relationship to be is also important. So uh it's not just about the technical stuff, it's about you know the approach and and and how things uh would look like as a client of that advisor.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Patrick, for joining us today, for really helping break down how not only entrepreneurs, but also everyday Americans can bring more structure, more strategy, more follow-through into their financial lives, which directly impact our personal lives. I think that was a core theme that we discussed today that really aligns with how I look at money and business and what the point of all of this all is. So thank you for driving that point home. And thank you to everybody who has tuned in, who's watched, who's listened to Income Insider TV. You can find the show notes for this episode at incomeinsider.org. We will include links to the resources and topics that were discussed in today's episode, along with a link to connect with Patrick and learn more about his work. If you found this conversation helpful, please take a moment to like this video, subscribe to the channel, turn on your notifications so you don't miss the next one. This really helps us get this content in front of more people who would really benefit from this. So that's it for Income Insider TV. I'm Sam La Liberty, and we'll see you next time.